Wellness + Wisdom | Episode 696
How did we as a society buy into the illusion of authority?
Justin Nault + Abel James join Josh Trent on the Wellness + Wisdom Podcast, episode 696, to expose how health propaganda, corporate interests, and the illusion of authority have fueled a crisis driven by processed foods and seed oils disguised as nutrition, and how their journeys of personal growth led to finding purpose, radical authenticity, and self-expression.
“The #1 reason for the health care epidemic that we have is the illusion of authority. There have been approximately 50,000 studies in the last 2 to 5 years funded by the National Institutes of Health that are all in favor of ultra-processed foods.” – Justin Nault
In This Episode, Justin Nault + Abel James Uncover:
[01:30] The Reality of Reality Shows
- Justin Nault
- Abel James
- My Diet Is Better Than Yours (2016)
- Abel's experience being on a reality TV show.
- Big Time (2012)
- Why Justin participated in a musician reality show.
- How the producers of reality shows manipulate the participants.
[07:15] Creative Expression
- What motivated Abel to become a musician as a child.
- How he overcame his shyness to share his joy with others.
- Why he was recording 8 podcasts per day.
- Melissa Hartwig Urban
[13:05] Becoming A Professional Performer
- Why Justin wanted to make people laugh as a child.
- How he realized that art was a fast track for love.
- Why he didn't love music the same way other musicians do.
- How he was getting external validation from being a performer.
- Why he left the music industry.
[20:00] The Lifestyle of a Rockstar
- Tim McGraw
- How Abel inspired Tim McGraw's band members to live a healthier lifestyle.
- Why it's important for musicians to put meaning into their songs.
- The opposite of addiction is connection.
[25:30] The Fear of Losing Love
- Why expression is the quickest path to health.
- How we're conditioned to not express ourselves.
- Why we have the desire to judge everything.
- If we lose love as children, we can't survive.
- How parents don't have the capacity to hold their children's negative emotions.
[30:50] Intuition VS Instinct
- Why intuition is like a muscle.
- How Justin intuitively knew his partner was the woman he was going to marry.
- Why our vulnerability helps others open up.
- How radical authenticity and self-expression are the medicine.
[35:30] Cultivating a Loving Relationship
- How Abel met his wife through eHarmony.
- Why they took the time to get to know each other before meeting in person.
- How he saw light around his wife the first time he met her.
- Why she didn't want to continue dating Abel after a few days.
- How working together as a team builds intimacy.
- We're always becoming a new version of ourselves.
[42:25] What Is The Game You Play?
- Why Josh didn't have a peaceful home base growing up.
- What led Justin to only date women casually when he was younger.
- Why romantic relationships are a process of parenting.
- Scary Close by Donald Miller
- How he feared intimacy and didn't allow himself to get vulnerable with women.
- Don Howard Lawler
- Justin's first experience with plant medicine in Peru.
- How somatic work helped him release stuck emotions.
[51:45] The Career Pursuit
- 692 Paul Chek | Spirit Gym: How To Find The Truth of Your Soul + Live Your Dream
- Why Abel pursued an intellectual path to secure his future.
- How corporate work allowed him to play music.
- Why performing almost every day for multiple years made Abel burn out.
- How he was working on a project helping children pursue higher education.
- Why the government didn't want them to improve the educational system.
[59:40] The Journey to Health
- How good food helps students perform better.
- Why Abel decided to start a blog and a podcast about health.
- How Abel got himself sick by following his doctor's advice.
- Why losing everything in the fire and being sick made him turn his life around.
[01:07:15] Food Is A Powerful Medicine
- 1 out of 3 children in the U.S. will be obese.
- How To Eat, Move And Be Healthy! by Paul Chek
- How Justin still struggles with body dysmorphia.
- Why poor nutrition was preventing him from getting truly fit.
- The Perfect Human Diet (2012)
- How the paleo diet helped Justin lose weight.
- Why the ketogenic diet can stop seizures.
- Dr David Perlmutter: Grain Brain, Eating Fat Makes You Smart, and Why (Brain) Size Matters
[01:16:15] Understanding Health + Disease
- How Justin started his first company.
- Robb Wolf
- Why Justin studied the human body to understand why people get sick.
- How people accused Justin of spreading misinformation.
[01:21:10] The Health Propaganda
- 071 Food Freedom Forever With Melissa Hartwig
- Why Whole30 started to add seed oils to their prepared meals.
- How the illusion of authority damages our health.
- Why science in the U.S. is a marketing funnel and a propaganda machine.
- How the medical school system is not any different from Herbalife.
- The problem with Whole30 food.
[01:29:45] The Dangers of Consuming Seed Oils
- How prioritizing scale over values takes a business away from its mission.
- Why seed oils can be used as car fuel.
- Seed oils are an industrial product that doesn't belong in the kitchen.
- Why some people don't feel like they've contributed enough to the world.
- How money is not worth sacrificing other people's well-being.
[01:35:25] Can You Really Believe Science?
- 694 Shawn Wells | Your Ultimate Guide To Healing Mental + Physical Health
- Why scientists should be open to changing their mind.
- How Melissa Urban has made science the God.
- We can cause harm even though we think we're helping.
- Dr. Jack Kruse and Andrew Huberman, Ph.D (Part 1)
- How the scientific environment differs from the natural environment.
- Why most nutrition studies have been done in the 2000s.
- How seed oils decrease immune function.
- Why science for many people is an ego play to sound like an authority.
[01:45:35] Is It Ever Okay to Eat Seed Oil Products?
- How Robb Wolf supported the use of seed oils.
- Why we need to tell each other the truth.
- How we make exceptions in healthy eating.
- Why Josh doesn't give his children food that contains seed oils.
- How Whole30 is taking advantage of people being lazy.
[01:53:05] Can Authorities Be Trusted?
- Max Lugavere
- How the healthy eating movement has become political.
- Why people get corrupted when they want more influence and authority.
- How paleo products became extremely popular during the pandemic.
- Why people can be unaware of their unconscious manipulative behaviors.
- Authorities don't always hold the truth.
[02:01:00] Money Is Not The Driving Force
- Why Justin turned down a lot of money to not sacrifice the quality of his products.
- How big companies need influencers to get access to people.
- Why Abel always stayed true to the message he's been sharing about health.
- How the Fat Burning Man's Instagram got blocked during the pandemic.
- Why Abel stayed focused on his growth and the relationship with his wife.
[02:10:50] Fame Affects The People In Your Life
- How sacrificing our truth gives our peace away.
- Why people in the past served their community without pursuing big money.
- How men should consult their fame goals with their family.
- Why there are consequences to getting famous.
[02:15:55] Plant Medicine Experience
- Why Justin lacked self-love and used external validation as a band-aid.
- How he stayed alone in the forest, fasting, with no technology, and doing plant medicine.
- Justin's understanding of God.
- How plant medicine helped him finally be met with unconditional love.
- Why the world is full of internal conflict with the self.
[02:23:05] Feeling Connected with Everything
- How psychedelics helped Abel and his wife grow spiritually.
- Why his experience with ayahuasca was physically challenging.
- How the shaman was able to see Abel's visions.
- Why Kambo gave him an allergic reaction but also made him feel connected to everything.
- How he felt his soul when he almost died of poisoning.
[02:32:10] Life Is a Ceremony
- How Josh felt like he wouldn't make it back from his last ayahuasca ceremony.
- 462 Ben Greenfield: Should You STOP Using Plant Medicines? Wisdom on Microdosing, The Muscle of Faith + How to Grow Your Spiritual Strength
- Why entities reside in us only if we have the space for them.
- How we put meaning behind being in a ceremony in Peru.
[02:38:25] Wellness + Wisdom
- How physical health is a fundamental pillar of wellness.
- Why it's important to stay true to our path.
- How wellness is connected to unconditional self-love.
- Why experience is the point of living.
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Power Quotes From The Show
Food Proved to Support Students' Performance
“The lever that the best performing schools use to change student behavior and outcomes is food. It's bringing high-quality food to the school so that when those kids eat it, they perform better.“ – Abel James
Fill Your Cup First
“Until we can get to a place non-judgment of self, unconditional safety with self, unconditional love of self, we can't give that to anybody else and we're going to be constantly finding and seeking conflict. And we live in this massive world right now. where conflict never seems to end. All it is is reflection of our internal conflicts.” – Justin Nault
Seed Oils Are Not Food
“Seed oils are an industrial product and so many industrial products have found ways to weasel themselves into our foods, our drinks, and our environment. A little bit here and there is not the end of the world. But if you're saying that this is food, you're incorrect. It's gear oil.” – Abel James
Links From Today's Show
- Justin Nault
- Abel James
- My Diet Is Better Than Yours (2016)
- Big Time (2012)
- Melissa Hartwig Urban
- Tim McGraw
- Scary Close by Donald Miller
- Don Howard Lawler
- 692 Paul Chek | Spirit Gym: How To Find The Truth of Your Soul + Live Your Dream
- How To Eat, Move And Be Healthy! by Paul Chek
- The Perfect Human Diet (2012)
- Dr David Perlmutter: Grain Brain, Eating Fat Makes You Smart, and Why (Brain) Size Matters
- Robb Wolf
- 071 Food Freedom Forever With Melissa Hartwig
- 694 Shawn Wells | Your Ultimate Guide To Healing Mental + Physical Health
- Dr. Jack Kruse and Andrew Huberman, Ph.D (Part 1)
- Max Lugavere
- 462 Ben Greenfield: Should You STOP Using Plant Medicines? Wisdom on Microdosing, The Muscle of Faith + How to Grow Your Spiritual Strength
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About Justin Nault
Justin Nault is the founder of Clovis, a health revolution dedicated to helping people escape toxic diet culture, fitness fads, and a broken medical system.
Through his holistic approach, Justin empowers individuals to heal their metabolisms, improve their mental health, and find true freedom by embracing radical authenticity.
He’s helped thousands break free from harmful health myths and finally start living in alignment with their bodies, focusing on self-love, nourishment, and sustainable lifestyle changes.
About Abel James
Abel James (Bascom) is a New York Times Bestselling Author, Musician, and OG Podcaster. Abel has been a leading voice in the world of health and technology for more than a decade.
He’s starred on ABC Television, in hundreds of podcasts and documentaries, and has been featured in People, Entertainment Tonight, Forbes, Fox News, South by Southwest, and many other major media platforms.
Abel hosts a top podcast, which has ranked as Apple’s #1 Health Podcast in 8 countries. With 100+ million downloads and 2000+ 5-star reviews since its launch in 2012, Abel’s podcast has won 4 awards in independent media, including “People’s Choice” in Health & Fitness at the Podcast Awards.
After completing an accelerated B.A. from Dartmouth College, Abel created his own interdisciplinary curriculum to study brain science, music, and technology, graduating as a Senior Fellow with Honors. He later published his research in The Musical Brain.
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